gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 12, 2014 19:02:07 GMT
Hello there, I've been working on this map for a long time now, and I really need feedback on it. Anyways here is the DL link and some images! >>> WORKSHOP LINK <<< SCREENIES --> albumThings I need help with: Layout, layout and once again, gameplay.
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Post by Zeph on May 12, 2014 23:33:32 GMT
1) have you read this section: developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Navigation_Meshes#Adding_place_namesIt looks like you can use a place name (BackYard) Are you trying to give the name to the same already named place? if so try "replace" instead of "name". 2) func_details is a large portion of optimisation. The other large portion is a decent skybox. If you have a large box around your map, this will be the cause. Next comes the more minor options, such as area portals and hints. To help further, I'd need to see a VMF, not the BSP. The map looks great, so hope I can help further.
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gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 13, 2014 6:43:32 GMT
www.gamefront.com/files/24230179/de_tempname06257.rar Here is the VMF Oh and the visgroups may have some weird things in them, like temporarily disabled buildings at B and terriby organized hint groups.. and don't touch the bigmapsizehints group, that was just me testing something really weird.
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Post by Zeph on May 13, 2014 9:00:58 GMT
Ahh, I've seen this map before. The biggest issue I can see is that simple open areas are filled with thousands of visleafs. When I remove your Hints, we get: Clearly, this is MUCH better. Basically, you're over-Hinting, and this is damaging your map. Generally, i would only use a handful of Hints in particular circumstances, and let the engine make the majority of visleafs.
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Post by forgotpwlol on May 13, 2014 10:38:08 GMT
that seems odd... but please dont tell me you turned on the bigmapsizehints group? also, on the current build i disabled all visclusters to see how long it takes without them. normally the vvis takes about 10-20mins with the visclusters enabled. but yeah, when i get home i'll try to make the leafs simpler and post the results.
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gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 13, 2014 11:39:26 GMT
btw, how do you view the map like that? Like how do you see the visleafs in the editor?
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Post by Zeph on May 13, 2014 11:49:38 GMT
Map -> Load Portal File (after a compile)
I didn't touch the custom visgroups (i use the auto one). This might have turned them on, but not sure.
VisClusters basically mean "every visleaf inside this box sees all other visleafs inside this box". It'll skip the computations for those visleafs, and hence is much faster. The big problem is the number of visleafs you have. If you didn't have so many, you wouldn't need to viscluster them together. A good place for viscluster is the water area. It's large and open, so therefore the visleafs in that area can see each other. A bad place is the visleafs above the buildings. This can end up with a (effectively) large visleaf across the span of the map, which may make other visleafs render despite being behind a building.
Generally, i use hints very specifically, and with testing for each hint i place using wireframe in game to make sure the hint does its job. something rendered behind a wall that shouldn't? add a hint and see if that improves it. you should end up with only a handful of hints in specific scenarios, rather than at every building corner, etc.
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gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 13, 2014 11:58:06 GMT
oh my.. I'll just delete every hint I have and redo it completely then XD
About the visclusters though, you can see I only put them at the top of the map and separated it with a hint so it shouldn't be connecting any of the leafs the player can access.
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Post by Zeph on May 13, 2014 12:29:31 GMT
But a large (effective) visleaf that joins a lot of other ones may decrease performance. It may not, and you're right to do it. sorry for the terrible drawing The visleafs are all connected and can see each other by the viscluster, yet the tall one gets rendered despite being half behind a building and not in line of sight. Normally, it would not be rendered (as it's below the dotted line, its not seen), but the viscluster may make it render. Im not saying you have this problem, but just increasing your awareness so that you can use these tools more effectively
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gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 19, 2014 17:54:14 GMT
Sorry for being inactive.. :/ I removed every hint brush and remade it completely. This time it took like 4 minutes to render the VVIS part, but at the cost of stuff rendering behind walls.. The lighting part took about 10 minutes. Please take a look at it.. I really need help.
Oh and about the place names, yes, I was able to use BackYard, but if I try to make it anything that's not in the list (Long) it won't accept it. I have NO idea why valve is forcing us to use preset place names...
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Post by Zeph on May 19, 2014 20:05:29 GMT
Linky?
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gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 19, 2014 21:02:31 GMT
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Post by Zeph on May 19, 2014 22:36:45 GMT
I see no link... May have a look at it soon (am quite busy! )
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Post by Zeph on May 20, 2014 14:57:07 GMT
Working on your HINTs atm, a couple of things: 1) You can hint multiple sides of the same brush, meaning you can use the same brush for multiple cuts (where applicable). 2) you don't have to make your diagonals at 45 degrees. Going from building corner to corner may be better (you just need to step a little further/less to make it render/disappear) 3) The different height buildings make hinting the roofs tricky. Generally you build to the shorter one, but it may cause problems against the taller ones. Oh and there were some "Invisible" shelves which needed to be func_detail. You can see the section i did here: www.mediafire.com/?owahoe8o8oivqki
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gooby
Trained Noob
Posts: 19
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Post by gooby on May 30, 2014 4:14:05 GMT
Hey, I tried to redo the hints completely and now I have less visleafs (3-5min vvis render time!!!11), but I still get things rendering behind buildings. There's one thing I need to know though.. does VVIS "draw lines" ( calculate if it can see) from leaf to leaf or leaf to prop/world geometry? Anyways, I added some nice looking houses at CT Side of bombsite b, also changed texture of a house at bombsite A... and various other stuff. Now, the really annoying this is that I can't use a place name "Long" or anything that's not in the list! What is this.. why would you enforce place names without giving a complete list of them? Lol. Here is the map file(s): www.gamefront.com/files/24264009/csgo.rarHammer file: www.gamefront.com/files/24264012/de_tempname06257_Hammer.rar
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